blocks|key|407923|text|你尝试过Spring+MVC吗？许多公司确实将Java用于web应用程序(或.NET)和基于web服务的应用程序。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|407924|entityMap^0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|D|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|-4|5|6|7|E|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|C|$]]

Have you tried Spring MVC? Many companies do use Java for web-apps (or .NET) and web service based applications.

blocks|key|282683|text|我可能会说ASP.NET+MVC。我总是看到很多.NET工作，这似乎是一个坚实的框架，我认为实际上是所有stackoverflow家族的动力。作为一名PHP开发人员，我还必须提到Zend+Framework，它被包括bbc.co.uk在内的许多大型网站使用，现在经常出现在PHP职位的广告中。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|offset|length|data|282684|entityMap|0|LINK|mutability|MUTABLE|url|http://www.bbc.co.uk/^0|30|9|0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|L|8|@]|9|@$A|M|B|N|1|O]]|C|$]]|$1|D|3|-4|5|6|7|P|8|@]|9|@]|C|$]]]|E|$F|$5|G|H|I|C|$J|K]]]]

i'd probably say ASP.NET MVC. I always see lots of .NET jobs around and this seems to be a solid framework which i think in fact powers all the stackoverflow family. As a PHP developer i must also make a mention of Zend Framework which is used by a number of big sites including <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow noreferrer">bbc.co.uk</a> and is now frequently mentioned in advertisements for PHP jobs.

blocks|key|282708|text|我在使用Django、Ruby+on+Rails和(eiuw!)的很酷的小公司遇到过真正的项目。甚至是Zope。.NET是为天线宝宝设计的--我只听说过那些不了解情况的大公司使用它。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|282709|entityMap^0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|D|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|-4|5|6|7|E|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|C|$]]

I've encountered real projects at cool, small companies using Django, Ruby on Rails and (eiuw!) even Zope. .NET is for teletubbies - I've only ever heard of it being used by big corporations that don't know better.

blocks|key|1706526|text|我会说，知道两个或三个比知道一个被广泛使用的要好，因为你会更好地理解它是如何作为一个概念工作的。例如，如果您只使用过Java，那么您对OOP的理解可能会有所欠缺，因为您被局限于以一种方式思考它。如果您已经了解Django，那么Spring可能是一个很好的补充。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|1706527|entityMap^0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|D|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|-4|5|6|7|E|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|C|$]]

I would say that knowing two or three is better than knowing one that is widely used because you will gain a better understanding of how it works as a concept. For instance if you've only used Java, there is something probably missing in your understanding of OOP, because you're pigeon-holed into thinking about it in one way. If you already know Django though you Spring would probably be a good compliment to that.

blocks|key|1689314|text|作为一个长期使用ASP.NET的人，我最近经历了一个类似的决策过程，以找出我应该尝试哪些其他web框架。这是我到目前为止学到的，可能也适用于你的案例：|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|1689315|1689316|framework/platofrm的选择(以及工作机会)具有高度的地域性--湾区的就业市场与你在纽约、芝加哥、蒙特利尔或伦敦找到的就业市场有很大的不同。看看当地的工作列表(craigslist和确实是很好的起点)，可以很好地了解demand.|unordered-list-item|1689317|similarly，中的内容，不同公司的规模和类型会有很大的不同。如果你想在大公司找到一份工作，Spring+MVC和ASP.NET+MVC可能是你最好的选择。在小公司中，DJango和(特别是)+Rails似乎正在增长，|1689318|的使用有时也会因行业而异。例如，许多人力资源应用程序似乎是基于.NET的，而金融/银行应用程序似乎更喜欢使用Java语言。如果你想在一个特定的行业工作，看看该行业的后起之秀都在使用什么。|1689319|当你把有限的时间投入到学习新事物上时，倾向于采用曲线上升的技术(例如Rails)，而不是采用范围更广的框架，因为这些框架的增长可能不会那么快。也要提防那些可能永远不会得到广泛采用的早期或小众框架。|1689320|大多数(或几乎所有)框架之间的一个共同点是，它们都是MVC框架，并且在很大程度上依赖于对REST的深入理解。深入学习这些概念是一个好主意。|1689321|在决定在一个框架上投入大量时间之前，先对其中的几个框架有一个基本的了解，这样你就可以合理地了解你对每个框架的喜好和不喜欢的地方--所以如果你最终使用了一个你没有学习过的框架来申请工作，至少你可以明智地谈论它。|1689322|如果你专注于你喜欢的东西，你会更有动力去学习它。例如，就我个人而言，我发现Rails+(不管就业机会)比Spring或Django更有趣，所以我决定首先关注Rails。其他人可能有不同的印象--遵循你的程序员直觉。也就是说，通常很少有工作使用你觉得吸引人的技术，所以试着找到合适的平衡:你喜欢的技术，许多公司实际上正在雇佣人员使用！|1689323|一旦你回答了基本的“什么框架”的问题，还有更多的问题潜伏着，包括选择一个javascript框架，验证框架，对象关系映射等等。但是随着你越来越深入，关于框架的同样的论点也适用于其他事情--例如，了解一些ORM是很有用的。|1689324|1689325|就我个人而言，我决定采用这种方法：|1689326|1689327|继续在我最熟悉的(+ASP.NET+)中构建东西，但将所有工作转移到MVC+MVC，在那里我可以更好地理解应用跨平台的MVC和REST概念|1689328|learn+JQuery+(再说一次，platform+ORM+off+off+ORM选择现在一起--有太多其他事情不用担心|1689329|在Rails中构建几个项目，这是我在SF湾区较新的初创公司中看到的最常用的框架我一直在关注|1689330|学习基础知识(例如，阅读一两本书，尝试一些示例)关于Python/Django、Java/Spring和Groovy/Grails.|1689331|1689332|entityMap^0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|18|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|-4|5|6|7|19|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|C|3|D|5|E|7|1A|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|F|3|G|5|E|7|1B|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|H|3|I|5|E|7|1C|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|J|3|K|5|E|7|1D|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|L|3|M|5|E|7|1E|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|N|3|O|5|E|7|1F|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|P|3|Q|5|E|7|1G|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|R|3|S|5|E|7|1H|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|T|3|-4|5|6|7|1I|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|U|3|V|5|6|7|1J|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|W|3|-4|5|6|7|1K|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|X|3|Y|5|E|7|1L|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|Z|3|10|5|E|7|1M|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|11|3|12|5|E|7|1N|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|13|3|14|5|E|7|1O|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|15|3|-4|5|6|7|1P|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|16|3|-4|5|6|7|1Q|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|17|$]]

As a long-time ASP.NET guy, I've recently gone through a similar decision process to figure out what other web frameworks I should try. Here's what I learned so far which may apply to your case too: 

<ul>
<li>framework/platofrm choices (and hence job opportunities) are highly regional-- the Bay Area job market differs alot from what you'll find in NYC, Chicago, Montreal, or London. Look at local job listings (craigslist and indeed are good places to start) to get a good sense at what's in demand.</li>
<li>similarly, usage varies alot based on the size and type of company. if you want to get a job in a large company, Spring MVC and ASP.NET MVC may be your best bets. In small companies, DJango and (especially) Rails seem to be on the rise.</li>
<li>usage also sometimes varies by industry. for example, many HR apps seem be to .NET based, while financial/banking apps seem to favor Java. if you want to work in a particular industry, check out what up-and-coming companies in that industry are using.</li>
<li>when investing your scarce time in learning something new, favor technologies which are on the upswing of the adoption curve (e.g. Rails) rather than frameworks with wider adoption which may not be growing as fast. Also be wary of very early or niche frameworks which may not ever gain wide adoption. </li>
<li>the one common thread between most (or almost all) frameworks gaining in popularity is that they're MVC frameworks and rely heavily on a solid understanding of REST. Learning those concepts in depth is a good idea. </li>
<li>before deciding to invest a lot of time in one framework, gain a basic understanding of several of them, so you can get a reasonable sense of what you like and don't about each-- and so if you end up applying for a job using a framework you haven't learned, at least you'll be able to talk intelligently about it.</li>
<li>If you focus on what you enjoy, you'll be more motivated to learn it. For example, personally I found Rails (regarless of employment opportunities) more interesting than Spring or Django, so I decided to focus on Rails first. Others may have different impressions-- follow your programmer instincts. That said, there are often few jobs using technologies you find fascinating, so try to strike the right balance: technology you like that many companies are actually hiring people to use! </li>
<li>once you answer the basic "what framework" question, there are many more questions lurking, including picking a javascript framework, validation framework, an ORM, etc. Don't worry too much about those choices yet-- when starting, just pick the default implementation for your framework. But as you get more advanced, the same argument about frameworks also hold for those other things-- e.g. it's useful to know a few ORMs.</li>
</ul>

Personally, I decided on this approach:

<ul>
<li>continue building stuff in what I knew best (ASP.NET) but transition all work to ASP.NET MVC, where I can better understand MVC and REST concepts which apply cross-platform </li>
<li>learn JQuery (again, platform neutral)</li>
<li>blow off the ORM choice alltogether for now-- too many other things to worry about</li>
<li>build a few projects in Rails, which is the framework I see used most in the newer SF-Bay-Area startups I've been looking at</li>
<li>learn the basics (e.g. read a book or two, try a few samples) about Python/Django, Java/Spring, and Groovy/Grails.</li>
</ul>

blocks|key|1706604|text|到目前为止，.NET和Java是雇主使用的两个最大的平台，因此在寻找工作时也是最受欢迎的。Java有几个流行的框架，JSF、Spring+MVC和Struts的需求似乎都差不多。我不使用.NET，但据我所见，ASP.NET和ASP.NET+MVC是最主要的。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|1706605|entityMap^0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|D|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|-4|5|6|7|E|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|C|$]]

.NET and Java are by far the 2 largest platforms used by employers, and hence the most in-demand when searching for a job. Java has a few popular frameworks, with JSF, Spring MVC and Struts all seeming to be about equal in demand. I don't use .NET, but from what I've seen, ASP.NET and ASP.NET MVC are the major ones.

blocks|key|283017|text|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|283018|我想学习一个框架，它能促进良好的编程实践，并受到编程社区的尊重。然而，我也想要一个框架，我可以用于日常工作。|blockquote|283019|283020|283021|很抱歉在这里带来坏消息，但这两个愿望往往是冲突的。我想大多数业务经理倾向于在CRM或其他更高级别的第三方代码库之上进行(丑陋的)快速开发。从根本上构建优雅的网站大多发生在初创公司，或者是真正的网络公司，网站是唯一的产品。这样的公司并不多；而且许多看起来合适的公司实际上内部一团糟，即由于时间压力、混乱的遗留代码和许多其他原因，你通常不能根据“良好的编程实践”来编写代码。|offset|length|style|BOLD|283022|我同意Kaleb+Brasee的观点，当工作可用性是优先事项时，Java和.NET是两个主要的平台。|283023|每个就业市场都是独一无二的，所以看看你所在地区的职位空缺，或者打电话给几个招聘人员，询问他们认为需要什么/可以很容易地将你安排到初级职位。我看到的是微软Sharepoint的需求，以及其他一些地区性CMS的需求(在丹麦，我经常看到Sitecore+)。|283024|我认为对于那些想要快速开发的老板来说，ASP.NET+MVC2.0以及MVC+Areas和ASP.NET+Dynamic+Data将会有一个很好的故事，一个很好的解决方案。我认为由此产生的代码可能相当不错，或者至少与许多现有的"CMS被打成其他东西“的网站相比并不差。但对于.NET平台来说，这是一个全新的东西，它需要首先被卖给决策者……|283025|底线:如果你首先想要的是工作保障，那就看看像Sharepoint这样的大型内容管理系统，然后在你的空闲时间研究其他技术。你也可以选择以后去一家初创公司/网络公司工作；但三思而后行。|283026|entityMap|0|LINK|mutability|MUTABLE|url|http://haacked.com/archive/2008/11/04/areas-in-aspnetmvc.aspx|1|http://www.asp.net/dynamicdata/^0|0|0|0|0|0|P|0|0|0|E|0|Z|9|0|19|K|1|0|0|1O|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|-4|4|5|6|13|7|@]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|A|3|B|4|C|6|14|7|@]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|D|3|-4|4|5|6|15|7|@]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|E|3|-4|4|5|6|16|7|@]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|F|3|G|4|5|6|17|7|@$H|18|I|19|J|K]]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|L|3|M|4|5|6|1A|7|@]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|N|3|O|4|5|6|1B|7|@$H|1C|I|1D|J|K]]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|P|3|Q|4|5|6|1E|7|@]|8|@$H|1F|I|1G|1|1H]|$H|1I|I|1J|1|1K]]|9|$]]|$1|R|3|S|4|5|6|1L|7|@$H|1M|I|1N|J|K]]|8|@]|9|$]]|$1|T|3|-4|4|5|6|1O|7|@]|8|@]|9|$]]]|U|$V|$4|W|X|Y|9|$Z|10]]|11|$4|W|X|Y|9|$Z|12]]]]

<blockquote>
 I want to learn a framework that promotes good programming practices and is respected by the programming community. However, I also want a framework that I can use for a day job.
</blockquote>

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but those two desires tend to conflict. IMHO most business managers tend to go for (ugly) rapid development on top of CRMs or other higher-level 3rd party codebases. Building elegant websites from the ground up mostly happens in startups, or true web companies where the website is the sole product. There are not that many of those companies; and many of those that seem to fit are actually a mess on the inside, i.e. due to time pressure, messy legacy code and many other reasons you often don't get to write according to "good programming practices" anyway.

I agree with Kaleb Brasee that Java and .NET are the two main platforms when job availability is a priority.

Every job market is unique, so look at job openings in your area, or call a handful of recruiters and ask what they see a need for / could easily place you in a junior position for. What I'm seeing is that Microsoft Sharepoint is in demand, and a few other regional CMS'es are in demand (in Denmark I see Sitecore regularly).

I think ASP.NET MVC 2.0 together with <a href="http://haacked.com/archive/2008/11/04/areas-in-aspnetmvc.aspx" rel="nofollow noreferrer">MVC Areas</a> and <a href="http://www.asp.net/dynamicdata/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">ASP.NET Dynamic Data</a> will have a good story, a good solution, for many of those bosses who want rapid development. And I think the resulting code could be quite okay, or at least not bad compared to many of the "CMS beaten into something else" sites that exist. But this is a brand new thing for the .NET platform, and it will need to be sold to the decision makers first...

Bottom line: If you want job security first and foremost, then look at large CMS's like Sharepoint, and work on other technologies in your spare time. Optionally you could take a job at a startup / a web company later; but look before you leap.

blocks|key|1689546|text|既然您提到了Ruby+on+Rails，那么您可能想要学习Ruby+on+Rails。它有一些很好的编程实践和一个很好的架构。Ruby社区本身也(在我个人看来)创建了非常创新的框架，并且非常重视测试和质量。你可以在像Cucumber，webrat，shoulda，coulda，rspec，test/spec这样的创新测试框架中看到这一点。许多初创公司也使用Rails作为他们的平台，所以你应该更容易找到一份工作。你可以开始看看Working+With+Rails和37signals+job+board了。所以在Rails和Ruby社区中有一个很好的生态系统。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|offset|length|data|1689547|但与Django相比，Rails的缺点主要是有太多的魔力(不那么显式)，并且文档不如Django好。如果你想得到Django的工作，试着看看几个新闻网站，因为Django是从一家报纸网站长大的，所以它在基于新闻的网站上被很多人采用。|1689548|entityMap|0|LINK|mutability|MUTABLE|url|http://www.workingwithrails.com/|1|http://jobs.37signals.com/jobs^0|5Y|I|0|6H|J|1|0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|P|8|@]|9|@$A|Q|B|R|1|S]|$A|T|B|U|1|V]]|C|$]]|$1|D|3|E|5|6|7|W|8|@]|9|@]|C|$]]|$1|F|3|-4|5|6|7|X|8|@]|9|@]|C|$]]]|G|$H|$5|I|J|K|C|$L|M]]|N|$5|I|J|K|C|$L|O]]]]

Since you mentioned Ruby on Rails, you might want to learn Ruby on Rails. It has got some good programming practices in it and a very well thought architecture. The Ruby community itself have also (in my personal opinion) created very innovative frameworks and highly favor testing and quality. You can see this by the innovative testing framework like Cucumber, webrat, shoulda, coulda, rspec, test/spec. Many startups also uses Rails as their platform, so it should be easier for you to get a job. You can start looking at <a href="http://www.workingwithrails.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Working With Rails</a> and <a href="http://jobs.37signals.com/jobs" rel="nofollow noreferrer">37signals job board</a>. So there is a good ecosystem inside Rails and Ruby community.

But the downside of Rails compare to Django is mainly there are too much magic (less explicit) and the docs is not as good as Django. If you want to get a Django job, try looking at several news site because Django grew up from a newspaper site so it is adopted alot in news based sites.

blocks|key|408186|text|我推荐Python+MVC，Ruby+on+Rails，或者ASP.NET+/Django，它们看起来都很流行和成功，并且基于MVC范例，这对于web来说绝对是正确的工具。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|408187|entityMap^0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|D|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|-4|5|6|7|E|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|C|$]]

I would recommend ASP.NET MVC, Ruby on Rails, or Python/Django, they all seem to be popular and successful, and based on the MVC paradigm which is definitely the right tool for the job when it comes to the web.

blocks|key|283200|text|我想说的是，这里提到的大多数框架都促进了良好的实践。但这并不一定意味着使用这些框架的公司实际上正在遵循这些良好的实践！事实上，很可能不是，所以不要期望太高。|type|unstyled|depth|inlineStyleRanges|entityRanges|data|283201|你看，像Stack+Overflow，Hacker+News等地方是一个很好的方式来联系那些真正关心他们的手艺的人。可悲的是，这只是少数。世界上有数百万的程序员。他们中的大多数都很烂。他们写的代码很烂。他们才不在乎呢。他们对提高技能不感兴趣。他们只想学习最起码的要求，拿到工资，回家，喂狗，花点时间和家人在一起，看一些电视，上床睡觉，第二天再做一次。|283202|好吧，这有点苛刻:)我的意思是，你最好向你想工作的公司的一些经理问这个问题。我猜他们中的大多数人会回答.NET或Java。如果你想开怀大笑，问问他们为什么选择这项特定的技术而不是其他技术，看看他们向你扔了多少流行语;)|283203|entityMap^0|0|0|0^^$0|@$1|2|3|4|5|6|7|H|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|B|3|C|5|6|7|I|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|D|3|E|5|6|7|J|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]|$1|F|3|-4|5|6|7|K|8|@]|9|@]|A|$]]]|G|$]]

I would say that most of the frameworks mentioned here promotes good practices. But that doesn't neccesarily mean that the companies using those frameworks are actually following those good practices! In fact most probably aren't. So don't expect too much.

You see, places like Stack Overflow, Hacker News etc. are a great way to connect with people who really care about their craft. Sadly this is a minority. There are millions of programmers in the world. Most of them suck. The code they write sucks. They don't care. They are not interested in improving their skills. They just want to learn the bare minimum required to collect their paycheck, go home, feed the dog, spend some time with the family, watch some TV, go too bed and do it all over again the next day.

Okay that was a bit harsh :) What I'm getting at is that you are probably better off asking this question to some of the managers at the companies where you would like to work. My guess is that most of them will answer .NET or Java. If you are up for a laugh ask them why they chose that particular technology over something else, and see how many buzzwords they throw at you ;)

I want to learn a framework that promotes good programming practices and is respected by the programming community.

However, I also want a framework that I can use for a day job.

Which one would you recommend?

This question comes from my experience of learning the basics of Django because it was highly acclaimed by developers on Stack Overflow and Hacker News. However.. there's hardly any jobs in my area (NYC) that are asking for Django developers.

Which web framework for someone who wants a job?

翻译质量差，导致语言生硬或混乱。

没有提供实际的解决方法或示例。

解答不清晰，无法理解或解决问题。

页面排版不美观，阅读体验差。

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